Motherhood Uncensored: Let's Cut the Whole Thing Off

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October 23, 2006

Let's Cut the Whole Thing Off

So, with all the hullabaloo about birthing another baby from the nether regions that are now officially lost below my large belly, I've totally forgotten that I'm about to deal with something I'm quite happy I don't own.

A penis.

I have to say that I'm not so excited about fighting the old runaway hose at every diaper change and clearly I'm just not experienced in schlong care. I imagine if drag queens can tuck those things pretty far up there and tape 'em up good then whatever I do to them will be nothing.

But seriously, I'm quite fine without having to deal with a penis on a daily basis. My husband tends to keep his to himself, save the bi-monthly "show and tell... me how big it is" fandango that occurs. And so, I've really been able to keep a fairly healthy distance between myself and the penis.

But come January, I'll be face to face with it way more often than I care to think about. And with that comes the big decision.

To cut or not to cut. That is the question.

I was informed by my midwife that it's cruel and unjust, and she just can't understand why anyone who would want to birth in a birth center would then want to cut off their son's foreskin. And I have read ALL the literature and seen all the nasty pictures.

But a woody with a hoodie?

I haven't actually seen one in person. I've heard tales of the blessed uncircumcised penis. And I've seen a few bazillion pictures of them thanks to my gay friend's Roger Maplethorpe book. (Now that is some great bathroom reading right there).

But I still think (even though they say by the time my son will be a teenager, 50% of boys will be uncircumcised) there's a bit of a stigma. That the boys go "ew" and the girls go "EW" and well, I wonder if it's worth NOT getting it done to endure that. And is it clean or not clean to maintain a foreskin? Shit. I know guys that can barely stop grabbing their balls let alone have to deal with the hooded dick.

And then I wonder if it's worth getting it done to endure that. And seriously, why is he flashing his penis around so much that people are making comments anyway?

So, what are we doing internets? What's your penis protocol?

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Posted at 08:00 AM in Maternitinis, Anyone? | Permalink

Comments

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Posted by: Lee Trotman | September 30, 2013 at 03:06 AM

I was not circumcised at birth.

I am actually now getting circumcised due to recuring problems with hygiene and iritation under the foreskin. No matter how much I clean it nothing seems to work. Even if I shower twice a day it still smells.
I kind of wish I was already circumcised. Because the recovery now is going to be quite lengthy.

Posted by: John Smith | August 14, 2012 at 10:55 AM

My Dear frantic Jenny,

Pull that Boys skin back and clean clean clean for gosh sake!! Multiple U T I ' S ????????????????

No orgasms?? At 7 or 8 I feel YOU need counseling gurlfriend!!!!!

Woof.....

Kevin in NY state

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Posted by: wifelovers | December 15, 2008 at 11:34 AM

Nice comments, I loved reading through all of this...although some of them scared me a bit. People are insane.

"how many people have their eyelids removed to stop their eyes getting gritty."

"Let him choose"...yes lets ask the newborn.

Thanks again Kristen for the link, I needed the laugh today.

Posted by: Issa | August 21, 2008 at 04:55 PM

I HAD MY SON AT A BIRTH CENTER AND I TOO DECIDED NOT TO CUT MY BOY--BUT IN THE LAST 18 MONTHS HE HAS HAD MULTIPLE PENIS INFECTIONS AND A URINARY TRACT INFECTIONS AND NOW I HAVE TO MAKE THAT DECISION ALL OVER AGAIN.

Posted by: JENNY BRAUN | August 12, 2008 at 05:11 PM

Hi folks.

Look at it like this!

How many people have their eyelids removed to stop their eyes getting gritty.
Thats right, none.
It would be illogical and stupid operation and I'm not even a doctor.
I think we should just leave them as nature intended.
Unless of course you are old enough to make the decision to mutilate yourself. Then do whatever you like, it is a free world after all.

Posted by: Mike | May 26, 2008 at 02:46 AM

Why not give HIM the choice?

Posted by: Jim Nyder | March 31, 2008 at 05:07 PM

If anyone wants to watch the BS circumcision episode they can do so here. They take an aggressive approach so if you can't handle swearing don't watch it. http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/nk-yGV0PJdM/

Posted by: Jerry | December 23, 2007 at 02:31 PM

My wife would have never married me if I had been circumcised. When I asked her out she make me prove that I was intact so I pulled out my hard dick that was still covered by my long abundant foreskin and she agreed to dinner
Friday night. I was told that her former boy friend was cut and left her tender sore and bruised after sex. She had talked with her Mother and she now understood why her 4 brother had not been clipped. That was 20 yo we now have 4 kids a girl 16 and 3 boys 12,10 & 8 all are intact.My wife reports that they all can retract and are very clean as she checks them from timt to time after their shower.They seem to be like me and will end up adults with a sporty overhang tapered bundle

Posted by: Bob | October 27, 2007 at 08:43 AM

After we had been married for 3 years she came home and proudly stated we are going to have a baby. Three months passed and found out it was a boy. Now we have all these thing to discuss and get ready. Went to the hospital and did the paper work and did not fill out the circumcision form. After he was borned everyone was asking for him to be done even the doctor until I showed him that I was intact and that was the end of it.That was 12 ya and the last time 2 months ago they did not even ask. Four sons 12, 10 and 8 and oups never any problems oldest retactable clean and very happy to that tapered end of skin over their head.

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Posted by: KorneusToons | August 02, 2007 at 11:18 PM

The arguments for circumcision seem to be the same ones used for female circumcision (appearance, hygiene, religion) and as baffling to me. But as I live in the UK the uncut is far more common than the cut, it just isn't a cultural dilemma here at all, outside of religious communities. I shall accordingly leave the debate respectfully, although I must admit to being relieved that my newborn son won't have to endure either surgery or stigma.

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Posted by: LeOgAhEr | June 01, 2007 at 07:06 AM

Okay. First, I stumbled on this topic by accident. You do not seem as though you are a religious person or you would know that this is primarily a Jewish practice. It is so that they shed blood in remembrance of the Disciple who turned on Jesus. The practicality is simply for women who are as ignorant about the male body as men are about the female body. The foreskin keeps the head of the penis from becoming callused. A callused penis , according to researchers, prevents a man from truly being able to be fully aroused and is known to cause dysfunction. Please research foreskin reconstruction. See what men are going through to become sexual functional because of the ignorance of their parents and doctors. Most women see it as an easy way out to bathing their child. God gave you a perfectly good child with all his fingers and toes. Would you cut them off? The foreskin has a purpose. Leave it where it is and do your job as mother and bathe your child properly. After all, you wouldn't want me to teach a little female child to clean herself in the wrong direct would you. Why? -Because she can contaminate her genitals and become infected internally. You see, not all people are so embarrassed or ashamed of the human body. And for your edification, the uncut, erect penis looks no different. The foreskin pulls back exposing the head of the penis. Have you never heard the old tale of wrapping the penis with multiple condoms so the male can sustain and erection for a longer period of time? If you had, this is your answer. It is absolutely true. I hope this helps and you leave your son as God and/or Mother Nature intended. Please research female genital mutilation. Islamists perform a similar act on their daughters. However, their purpose is clear. It is to remove and desire to have sexual intercourse. I bet you think this is barbaric. You’re correct it is. So why would you do it to your son. This is your opportunity to learn all about a man's body from birth. I suggest you use this time wisely as all little babies grow up so fast.

Posted by: Mike leventhal | May 09, 2007 at 02:46 PM

I didn't have my boy circumcised because I didn't want him to go through all that pain and I think its better for him to keep his foreskin. I have babysat a few boys who had problems with their circumcisions like adhesions and other problems. I didn't want my son to endure the same kind of things. Plus I think it looks better uncut.

Posted by: Becky Heider | March 04, 2007 at 02:18 PM

I just sta and read ALL of the comments here and I am so annoyed that there are so many knowitalls out here. It is such a personal decision like breastfeeding, ear piercing, religion and more. I hate that people try to make others feel badly for their choices. I hate that everything when it comes to parenting seems to have to turn into a debate. DO what YOU and your HUBBY feel is right.

Posted by: Kristina (formerly of kristinabrooke.org) | February 27, 2007 at 09:52 PM

www.circumstitions.com

Ha ha.. I forgot to add the link...

Posted by: Andi | February 23, 2007 at 04:14 PM

I just stumbled over the site and decided to put my 2 cents in regarding this topic. I am very much against circumcision, and have been since my earliest sex education classes in school. My ex is cut, my son is not. When my son did finally realize there is a difference, we talked about it. That closed the case, he was fine with that. Now that my younger sisters are having kids, I gave them the link I'm referencing here. After seeing the videos, pictures, and getting good information, none of them have circ'd their sons. Get the info, I'm sure you'll see all the good reasons for leaving your boys intact.

Also, for anyone who "had to have their 5, 10, 15 year old circ'd" and whatever. What a bunch of BS. If our society wasn't so predisposed to circ, we'd all know that there are alternative treatments for paraphimosis and frenulum breve, which is what a great majority of "necessary" circs are "treating" in older boys.

Posted by: Andi | February 23, 2007 at 04:13 PM

Again, another very latecomer. The entire time I was pregnant with my b/g twins I insisted that my son was going to be circumcised. As soon as he was born, I began to think differently about it. I've always preferred the look of a circumcised penis, but that's a stupid reason to go through with an unnecessary procedure. My husband didn't care whether our son "looked like him" or not and our little guy just seemed so perfect as he was. There's no medical reason to go with a circ and I just couldn't make aesthetics a good enough excuse to do it. If he wants to be cut when he's older we'll gladly support his decision, but it'll be his choice and that's what matters.

Posted by: HW | February 21, 2007 at 04:40 PM

Me and my wife are considering circumcision for our (hypothetical) boys. We come from a country were circ is not the norm, but we both agree on the hygene and reduced risk of infection advantages as well as the looks. I'm not cut but I guess I've always prefered the cut appearance.

Posted by: MR | February 14, 2007 at 10:46 PM

teach your children confidence, and NO ONE will be important enough to make them insecure about their "hooded wiener". Bottom line, we all have had issues with our bodies when we hit puberty. fuck off

Posted by: bobby | January 27, 2007 at 10:48 PM

I need to post a follow up after reading the nonesense about pain for uncirced guy. This is either fiction or a very rare case. Strange that I saw the same comment at another site.

Anyway the bit about AIDS is still under debate. Read this link:
http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/852571020057CCF6852571CD005207D9
A way to 100% prevent AIDS it to cut the whole thing off.

On sex, this the following was what I mentioned.
http://mensightmagazine.com/Articles/Northrup/lovecirc.htm

Posted by: Jack | January 11, 2007 at 05:18 PM

I grew up in the 60s-70s and it was not such a big deal to be 100%intact. I did think a few times as a little kid that I should pull back my foreskin -- so I look like I was cut. There really were not so many naked situations.

The more surprising thing is that when I dated, woman often didn't notice until well into the relationship. When it is erect, it is hard to see that there is any foreskin.

I did have a few partners that were very happy with the difference in the mechanics of sex. There is quite a bit about this in a book about sex the way it was intended (or something like that).

On hygyine, for my sons, it is less of a hygenic problem until they reach puberty than cut (mutilated). The cut up penis is not happy in stinky diaper. After that, showers are enough, except for oral sex. However, I have also heard from partners that cleaning before oral sex is a must anyway.

As with many men not cut, my foreskin can remain retracted (if I pull it back -- does not alsways work)and this lets one know what it would be like to be cut. I can imagine bad things after consttant underwear abrasion. Circ causes ED, there is no doubt about it.

Also, lots of misconceptions (like there is no chance of a hooded woody), unless you pull it back over. I read somehere that uncut means you need to hold back the skin -- what nonesense. The real question is why did anyone think you could have sex after cuttying that off?

Posted by: Jack | January 11, 2007 at 04:50 PM

We had two boys and did not circ. We figure if it bothers them they can make the decision when they are older. You obviously can't put it back on once it's done. It's your decision though, and I say that without ranting or swearing.....I have a stop circ weblink on my page I got from someone else. It has good info. Make an informed decision.

Posted by: Jamiee | January 04, 2007 at 03:21 PM

I didn't comment here before, because I knew this was a heated argument, but really whose decision is it but your own to cut or not to cut?

And those of you arguing and judging each other need to step back and take a good look at why you chose to do it the way you did. What makes your choice more right than mine?

It's a personal choice and we shouldn't attack each other about it.

Posted by: dana | December 31, 2006 at 11:00 AM

Here is one link:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/07/06/MNGANDJFVK1.DTL&type=printableL

Posted by: Kim | December 27, 2006 at 04:23 PM

Ok, so I'm like way way late on this one but I just wanted to ask if you've seen the study from Africa of something like 100,000 men that proves that circ'd men are LESS LIKELY to get HIV/AIDS. The medical community of one African nation is calling for mass circumcision to lessen the rate of transmission.
My son is cut. I weinied out - my husband and brothers are cut, so I let my husband's preference prevail. If this one is a boy I am not sure what I'll do.
I will try to come back and post the link to above mentioned story.

Posted by: Kim | December 27, 2006 at 04:21 PM

The first man I had sex with was not cut, and every time we had sex, he was in agony. He would have to stop and manually pull the foreskin back. Which was not only painful for him to do, but painful for me to listen to and watch. He often made the comment that he wished his parents had him circumsised.

When I had my son I decided to that he would be circumcised. It is a decision that I have never regretted.

Now that my son is in his twenties and we can discuss these issues as they have come up, he has told me he is glad that he is circumcised.

When my niece had her son, she also made the decision to have him circumcised.

I have always felt comfortable with mine and my ex-husband's decision at that time to have it done. Nothing has ever happened to change my mind.

And speaking personally, I prefer a cut penis to an uncut.

Posted by: KatMama | December 17, 2006 at 09:40 PM

When I had my son I decided to that he would be circumcised. It is a decision that I have never regretted.

Now that my son is in his twenties and we can discuss these issues as they have come up, he has told me he is glad that he is circumcised.

When my niece had her son, she also made the decision to have him circumcised.

I have always felt comfortable with mine and my ex-husband's decision at that time to have it done. Nothing has ever happened to change my mind.

And speaking personally, I prefer a cut penis to an uncut.

Posted by: KatMama | December 17, 2006 at 09:39 PM

Circumcision without medical cause is, quite simply, and human rights violation. Bodily integrity is a basic human right. Reasons such as conformity are nonsense. It's nearly certain that your boy will be grateful when he grows up that you left him intact. The prepuce is densely innervated, sexually sensitive tissue.

Do the right thing, and let your son keep his whole body.

Posted by: RB | December 03, 2006 at 07:12 PM

Advice from the heart; as a 50 yrs old white middle class male I can, oddly enough, sympathize with mothers struggling with the circumcision issue. I continue to consider the surgery for myself. Not for any physical reason. It’s because I’ve had the opinion that most North American women prefer circ’d men. It is emotional. Yet I remain undecided. Why? If done, I worry I will loose some of the nuances of lovemaking. There is no question in my mind that an intact male does experience greater sensitivity. With my wife I enjoy lying “coupled”, and climaxing without having to pound the poor women to bits. As you can see I continue to talk myself out of the surgery.

I am not against male circumcision, but I firmly advise you to let your son decide for himself when he’s of age. Fathers who were circ’d as infants and decide to leave their son’s intact are confident men.

Posted by: Dave | November 30, 2006 at 02:21 AM

The uncut penis. Ive been with one guy who was uncut. Let me tell ya, Ill NEVER do it again. That became my one and only physical issue with men... Are you circumsized? No? Okay bye...

Now of course I dont represent a large portion of the population, I am only me...but I have a feeling Im not the only one with a forskin aversion...

Posted by: Toni | November 28, 2006 at 11:14 AM

Well i think the turtleneck looks better than the round neck! And really... if there were anythign wrong with the hood God wouldnt have put it there in the first place. Problems might happen, but they could happen to any part of the body.. cant chop them all of in anticipation, can we?

Posted by: The Mad Momma | November 22, 2006 at 03:19 AM

I'm really late with this, but I followed the link from Mom101.

We had a hard time deciding what to do with our first. We had decided not to do it, then talked to my father-in-law who isn't snipped and the hassles he told us it causes convinced us to do it. We did it a week later.

A friend at work has a 12 year old that's not circumcised and he's having some problems with it. The extra skin is sticking or something like that and it's causing a lot of trouble. Especially since 12 year old boys start to get woodies. I guess the skin was stuck and the woody caused a rip, and blood, and a mom totally freaking out. The doctors are now recommending that he be circumcised. Can you imagine putting a 12 year old through that.

Posted by: nila | November 17, 2006 at 06:00 AM

Very late to this discussion, but wanted to add our experience, as we seem to be in the minority. With my circle, I’ve encountered almost every childrearing debate: home birth; drugs during labor; discipline; co-sleeping; home schooling; baptizing; skipping vaccinations, etc. But honestly, I’ve not encountered a more heated topic than ‘cut vs. uncut’. And I’m still shocked at how deliberately harsh and backhandedly-cruel people can be about my decision.

We had our now 18 month-old son circumcised. I was very on the fence, while my husband was in favor of it. Yes, my husband, and most people I know, are circumcised. But I also know three fathers that aren’t, who insisted on having their sons circ’ed. Never in my life had I had so many conversations with friends and mere strangers about penises! My friends and coworkers… When I interviewed pediatricians… the medical staff while I was in the hospital… Doctors and nurses all gave the now-standard reply: “According to the AAP, routine circumcision is not a medically necessary procedure. This is a personal, family and/or religious decision.” And all but one of those medical professionals then added, “But I had my son circumcised, and I would do it again.”

Do I regret the decision? Only when I read posts telling me I mutilated my son. Otherwise, it's been fine. It honestly took twice as long for his belly button to heal. I am pregnant again and secretly hope for a girl simply to avoid this decision. Do we do it again if we have doubts? If we don’t, how do we explain it to two sons, two years apart, that they are different? Will they even care?

The OBGYN who did the procedure – with anesthesia-- was very kind, and allowed my husband to be there (even though that really pissed off the medical staff!) Hubby says the baby cried more at being undressed and that everything went very quickly. While I paced the halls, I prayed for a sign that we were doing the right thing. When my husband returned with our soundly sleeping son, he said a female Brazilian aide asked if he was waiting during a circumcision. And then added, “ Oh, I so wish we had that done. It’s been a nightmare.” Right or wrong, we took that as our sign.

And the argument about “let him decide when he grows up”? That’s a cop-out. Would a teenager be able to make that decision? Would a parent let him? We make decisions as parents, good and bad, but need to make them nonetheless. And then we torture ourselves over and over…

Just do what you think is right. And I wish you peace with whatever decision you make.

Posted by: Mrs. Q. | November 13, 2006 at 09:26 PM

My 2 boys 3yrs. and the other 15 months and both are uncut. We had no trouble, washing it is the same as washing any other body part, no special attention required. I must say, we live in Alabama and people are shocked to say the least. The best was my nurse at the hospital. She must have been 60, "he aint circumsized, that's unclean".
Oh and to avoid diaper leakage of urine ( I don't think anything can stop breastmilk blowouts) the little penis should point downwards. Most people probably already knew that, but I don't have a penis, and I don't know how to adjust one.

Posted by: Roxanne | November 10, 2006 at 11:47 PM

As a pastor, I have to say that circumcision is for the Old Testament Israelites. It isn't for us. We believers in the New Covenant are not under the Old Testament law. So, don't worry about it. Just leave that hood on. Don't be cruel to the jewels!

Posted by: matt brown | October 31, 2006 at 02:57 PM

Denise C Wins a prize for noticing the woody sweatshirt and laughing.

Thank you Denise

Posted by: Kristen | October 31, 2006 at 07:46 AM

I have three sons: ten, six, and five, and none are circumcised, and none have suffered any problems or discomfort as a result of retaining their foreskins. Keeping them clean is easy. You can't and shouldn't retract their foreskins, and just washing what you can see keeps them clean. My current partner, and a fair sprinkling of previous partners are uncircumcised and have none of them experienced any problems. I know of one man who has some issues with a non-retracting foreskin, but I'm not sure I'd consider it sensible to cut something off to prevent something which *might* happen one day.

In my opinion, circumcision is just unnecessary. Aesthetics are transitory, and highly personal, and a poor reason to cut something off. To look like someone else also strikes me as short sighted.
An intact penis isn't any harder to keep clean than a cut one. Circumcision doesn't prevent disease. I couldn't find any reason *to* circumcise, and I'm personally disinclined to do things without a good reason.

Posted by: ema | October 31, 2006 at 12:23 AM

OMG. I'm dying. Literally. I'm dead as I type this. I laughed.so.hard. Woody with a hoodie. That is pure genius.

My four boys are intact. I had all natural homebirths...didn't see the logic in having a very non-medical birth and then bringing them in to get their foreskin chopped off...just didn't make sense to me. I've seen uncircumsized penises before...they look like they are being choked. Ouch.

Posted by: Denise C. | October 30, 2006 at 04:56 PM

Oh dear, I see that one of my comments echoes something someone a *bit*, ahem, more vocal also said. I assure you, it was said tongue in cheek. My sister cir'd her son and I have NEVER, ever made her feel badly about it, nor would I ever judge anyone who did it either. Those were just my reasons. I may think that not circ my son was a good decision for us, but by no means am I mommy of the year. (or even mommy of the week!)

Posted by: Fairly Odd Mother | October 28, 2006 at 09:05 PM

I'm so late to the party---I can't believe I haven't found your blog before! Anyway, this issue is near and dear to my heart b/c my third child was a boy and I went through the same dilemma. I even went as far as to call my insurance company and they assured me that they would pay for the procedure no matter what his age. So. . .we didn't do it. I figure, when he is older, if it bugs him, he can get it done. But, he can't undue it once it is done. His penis looks so normal to me, not disgusting or weird. And, if I can teach my girls how to clean their privates, I can teach my son the same. I can't imagine it is that big a deal.

Don't even get me started on the 'look like your dad' argument. I asked my husband if he EVER remembers comparing his penis to HIS dad's and he looked at me like I had four heads. 'Nuff said. My mom had boobs, I don't. I didn't get implants to look like her either!

Posted by: Fairly Odd Mother | October 28, 2006 at 08:57 PM

If the circ is done later in life, for medical/religious/ whathave you reasons, at least the procedure can be explained, anesthesia is easier to administer and pain relief easier to proscribe/administer. Newborn anesthesia (which is still frequently NOT given in circs) is notoriously tricky.

My dad was circ'd as an adult and yes, it was painful, BUT he knew what he was doing, made the choice for himself and was able to communicate his pain and take appropriate treatments afterward.

My DH is happy with his dick BUT also is very angry that he was cir'd without his consent.

The Penn and Teller Bullshit episode on circumcision is great.

Posted by: Christina | October 28, 2006 at 08:18 AM

"If I'm not mistaken, there are ways to convey a point of view using logic and factual information--and without attacking another woman's parenting ability, wishing harm on her personally, comparing her to a terrorist, questioning her mental capacity, or demeaning her husband."

Yes. Thank you.

The mention of karma in that post is especially ironic.

Posted by: jozet | October 28, 2006 at 04:13 AM

well, i'm actually surprised that you only got one super-aggressive/reactionary comment. glad cooler heads are prevailing.

i have a daughter, but this is a question we grappled with before she was born, and grapple with still, knowing that we'd like another.
i am jewish, hubby is not, but is cut. we are pretty crunchy and won't even let our daughter wear anything but natural fibres, and yet...
essentially, by making a decision to not circ, i'd feel like i was also making the decision for him to not be a jew - something that will be up to him, later. yes, he can be circ'd later, but it is so much more serious.

Posted by: penelopeto | October 27, 2006 at 10:21 PM

I wish Cyndi will calm herself down. All of your ranting and raving will not bring back all of the cut foreskin.

I agonized over what to do about whether to have it done. In the end, I admit that I gave in to my husband's wishes and he wanted it done. I read everything I could and I really didn't want to do it, but I did because a coworker who didn't have her son done regretted it because he had to have it done at 6 years old for medical reasons. That sorta swayed me. You can think or SAY what you want, but I just didn't know if I could take care of an uncut penis... and my husband certainly wasn't going to do it.

Because my son was born premature, his penis was imature and retracted so it was not done at birth. We had it done 6 months later and it was done with anethesia. I was very worried about the pain he experienced, but right after the operation he was fine and flirting with the nurses. He was fine afterwards, too. If asked, I not suggest to have it done, but IF they were going to do it, that it should be done as we had it done.

In all honestly, however, I do regret that my son will not have the benefits of being intact. That is something that I will have to live with, period. Hopefully my son won't hate me when he grows up, but what's done is done.

Posted by: Debbie K. | October 27, 2006 at 10:03 PM

I came back to see what other responses you got and was mortified to see I spelled Urologist as Eurologist not once but twice. NICE. I was getting pulled on by a toddler at the time I was writing it and must have been dreaming of running off to Europe.

But now I'm distracted by "If you do it, fucking own up to the fact that you harmed your child for your own fucked up mental reasons and leave it at that."

I do own up to it and regret it but still can't help be offended that someone would assume I did it b/c of my "own fucked up mental reasons." Someday I wish I could be one of those parents that know everything and never make mistakes. I just have a feeling they really don't exist, they only act like they do.

Posted by: Mama C-ta | October 27, 2006 at 09:17 PM

If I'm not mistaken, there are ways to convey a point of view using logic and factual information--and without attacking another woman's parenting ability, wishing harm on her personally, comparing her to a terrorist, questioning her mental capacity, or demeaning her husband.

That's how adolescents fight, not adults.

I'll leave it at that.

Posted by: Mom101 | October 27, 2006 at 05:06 PM

OMFG my head is absolutely spinning at ovewhelming ammount of ignorance filling this page. I want to vomit, I want to shake several of the commenters.
Good lord, ladies, use your brains.

Let's tackle this, shall we?
1) "I want him to look like daddy!" OMG HOW CUTE! Are you going to paste on pubes too!!!?? Give your little girls a boob job at age two!? And OMG don't forget about penile implants if your son isn't as endowed as daddy later in life!

Seriously people baby bits DONT LOOK LIKE adult bits and THEY ARENT SUPPOSED TO. WTF is wrong with you people? Do you not know that babies are born with small bits and no pubes? For fucks sake.

And, adress the double standard if you are going to use that sad, lame excuse........why DONT you boob job your little girl or put pubes on? WHY!!??? Cause, if you want them to look like their parent, thats what you need to do!!

2) "I don't own a penis, so I'm going to let dad decide". Yes, lets please transport ourselves back to the 40's where women are relegated to cooking and sewing, and not knowing anything about man-business. That sounds lovely.

*rolls eyes* What a cop out. I hope all of you who used this excuse get your karma payback on that one and soon, not only for the diservice you did to your child, but for the disservice you do to all the progress women have made in the past fifty years.

In case you didn't know, women are quite capable of making informed medical choices for their sons. Revalutionary idea, I know.

That's your job, you know. To inform yourself and care for your child. If your not ready for that, I know many infertile couples who ARE ready to take FULL responsibility for a child.

3) "It's GROSS!!" ew! natural peni are icky! yucky yucky doo doo!!!

Puh-LEEZ. Most of the world is uncirced. I've been with my fair share of intact men. Not icky, better lovers. Jealous are you? All you know is your tiny little white husbands willy, covered by two inches of belly fat? Yeah, sad, but don't make your son pay for that.

It's not any grosser than your vajayjay is, but then again I can only atest to the goddess-like quality if *mine*.

Many african cultures consider vulvas "gross", we call them mutilators. Many Al Quida consider womens arms and legs "gross"...we call them opressive.

Get a clue.

4) "But it prevents STDS"

OMG NO IT DOES NOT!!!!!!!!! Spreading this is MYTH is DANGEROUS. Removing foreskin does not prevent ANYTHING. Dear lord, just use your fucking common sense on that one. I'm so sick of this myth being perpetuated out there. It's DANGEROUS ladies, dangerous. We're gearing up to have a whole host of middle american teenage boys running around fucking anythign that moves because "Mommy told me I can't catch diseases because she cut off part of my penis!".

5) "They don't even remember it!"

Oh, ok then. Well, then let's just beat the shit out of all our newborns and get out all that agression since, well, they won't REMEMBER it, and it'll heal, right? I mean, as long as we don't hurt them REALLY bad, it's ok cause they don't REMEMBER it.

The bottom line is that there is NO REASON TO DO IT. Period. The end.

If you do it, fucking own up to the fact that you harmed your child for your own fucked up mental reasons and leave it at that. I swear to god, if I hear one more lame excuse for cutting up a newborn, my head very well may explode on the keyboard.

And, FWIW, yeah, I also think it's abusive to pierce a babies ears before they are old enough to consent.

My experience? Mom of two. A 7 year old girl who asked for her ears pierced at 6 and a 2 and a half year old boy who is intact because my babies are not born defective. They don't need "fixing".

Posted by: Cyndi | October 27, 2006 at 03:21 PM

Please don't circumcise your son. Chances are, he'll never, ever have a problem. I'm an OB nurse and I"ve seen more than a few botched circumcsions that led to massive bleeding a couple that will require additional corrective surgery in the future. I left my son intact even though my husband is circumcised. My son has never had a problem and I've never regretting not circumcising him.
I can't speak for everyone, but before I was married I slept with two different uncircumcised men. I never did say "eww" when I saw or touched them. It was still a penis and the uncircumcised ones worked just as well as the circed ones.
Please watch this video of an infant circumcision before you decide.
I swear, everytime a baby is circumcised in my hospital, my heart breaks. It's that sad. Please leave your son the way nature intended.
http://intact.ca/vidintro.htm - the video is at the bottom of that page.
Thanks!

Posted by: Meredith C. | October 27, 2006 at 12:05 AM

Oh, and I don't at all respect "religious reasons" when it means non consensually mutilating a person. Female genital mutilation also happens "for religious reasons" or to look like everyone else. Still not a good reason to do it and in fact it is a major human rights abuse.

Posted by: badgerbag | October 26, 2006 at 04:22 PM

There's nothing ew about it any more than there is about the hood on your clitoris.

Posted by: badgerbag | October 26, 2006 at 04:11 PM

No!
There is no good reason. I'm a midwife and I think that it's a human rights abuse, pure and simple.

Justifications?

religious: what if your son decides NOT to practice your religion? Your covenant isn't necessarily the one he would choose to keep. If he is religious, then he can get it done when he comes of age.

DH wants the baby to "look like him": so if your DH has glasses the baby has to? If he's disabled? If he's an amputee? Would you tattoo, pierce or otherwise alter the baby's body?

It's cleaner/easier: no, it's different. Cleaning an uncir'd boy is not harder than a cir'd one. Mostly, leave it alone. A little soap and water will do it.

Aesthetics? You're joking, right? You're going to cause permanent ireversable harm to your child because you think it "looks nice"?

My DH doesn't mind that his is: have you ever known a man who *wan't* happy with his dick?

I could go on, but you get the point

Posted by: Christina | October 26, 2006 at 12:36 PM

Damn, can't believe I missed this one.

My son is uncut.

While pregnant my husband and I went back and forth about what to do. Then we happened to see an episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit and this was the topic. They showed exactly how one is done and after seeing it, I felt like it really wasn't necessary for us.

I talked with my OB about it and she said that for 2005 we were only the 2nd baby she had to go uncut. She was with us, though, as she did not cut her two sons. It is just rare to go uncut in the midwest, I guess?!?! I've only been with cut men, really.

Posted by: Stephanie A. | October 26, 2006 at 10:47 AM

Wow, i feel like i just did something dirty looking at those photos. I have no opinion. My son's are not circumsised because i couldn't stand the thought of hurting them. I haven't met any little boys who were, but i live on the hippy west coast.

Posted by: jess | October 26, 2006 at 12:35 AM

I left the circ/no circ decision up to my husband because after all, he has a penis. He decided to go for it.

BTW, a great penis tip (no pun intended) passed to me was: point Mr. Peepee down when putting on a new diaper. Or else. Suffer. The. Wet. Consequences.

Posted by: Damselfly | October 25, 2006 at 09:59 AM

Well you've probably heard enough but I'll add one more. We had Cricket circd and I regret it. First of all I didn't realize how much maintenence you had to do w/a circ penis (I thought that was part of the benefit). I mostly regret it b/c aside from the painful procedure and immediate aftercare we were not informed how to properly care for it after it was long healed. Cricket was very chubby which pushes everything forward. B/c the turtle couldn't come out of his shell we should have been pulling the skin back and applying vaseline with every diaper change (AFTER it was fully healed - until he is like 2 or something) B/c we didn't know that the skin began to adhere. So we had 3 trips to the Eurologist to "tease" the skin back that had adhered. They numbed it but it was very gross looking and very painful for him for the next couple days. I felt horrible for having done it in the first place and then basically doing it an additional 2 times. Now he's good but we're told we still have to pull it back and put vaseline on it before bed until he eventually is old enough that it's going in and out just fine on it's own. He has to "grow into" the skin since our OB left quite a bit.

If I were to ever have another boy we're kind of undecided about what to do. Since having Cricket I've learned about all the anti-circ stuff only to add to my guilt. So can I do it to my next son? Can I have 2 boys with 2 totally different wankers? Maybe I'll never have to decide but we kind of came to a compromise (with the advice from our Eurologist). We'll wait until he's at least 1 to have him circ'd which then he'll have the surgery/anesthesia and it'll be done RIGHT by a PRO, not an OB. Especially since the first year uncircs don't require any special care. I have a feeling though that if we let it remain for his first year we'll probably decide at that point not to do it afterall. Which I'm kind of hoping.

My advice, if you decide to do it, make sure you have ALL the care info you need, have it done by someone whose only job (or their main job) is doing circs. (Mohel?). Anyway, good luck!

(and I too feared the baby penis but now I'm scared to ever have a girl, I fear the baby vag more). That is until Cricket hits 4 and he has a constant night boner and I have to try to get him to pee in the toilet w/a hard on, according to my mom friends.

Posted by: Mama C-ta | October 25, 2006 at 09:32 AM

I left it up to my husband, and we cut.

The baby was fine afterwards and completely healed in about three days.

I was on the fence about this. The only thing making me lean a bit more to "cut" was that in the three months before the baby was born, I knew two little boys who had to be circumcised at 5 years old. Completely fluke of statistics, there. But, their mothers' horror stories were fresh in my mind and I was all hormonal and emotional....

I may have done differently if it were babies whose circs were not done correctly, but that the way it goes with me. I'm all logic and reasoning up to a point, and then it goes kablooey.

Posted by: jozet | October 24, 2006 at 11:28 PM

ZD ~ Unless you just like the way it looks... without the hood, that is...

Posted by: Kristen | October 24, 2006 at 10:45 PM

I'm a little surprised after reading some of the comments, because a) I was never teased by other boys for being uncut, b) even if I were cut I can't imagine THANKING MY MOM for it, and c) there is absolutely no non-religious reason to do it. Period.

Posted by: zygote daddy | October 24, 2006 at 10:43 PM

I left the decision up to my husband, but if I had it to do over I would not circumcise. It looks horribly painful and really seems like torture on a newborn. It took a week to heal. On the other hand, my friend's son was not circumcised and had to have surgery at 11 to be (priapism?). Anyway, whatever you decide try not to feel guilty.

Posted by: Sami | October 24, 2006 at 09:32 PM

I have two little boys, one is approaching 2 years of age, the other is 5 and a half months old. We didn't circumcise either, partially due to the fact that my husband is uncircumcised, and partially due to the fact that after reading all of the material, we really couldn't think of a good reason to have it done. Medical "research" goes both ways over the cancer debate. One camp says there is no increased risk if you choose not to circumcise, the other says there is. I guess it depends on which selection of patients they included in their research.

In any case, I think it's well nigh proven now that infants CAN feel pain, so if you decide to snip, be sure to demand pain relief.

As far as the fountain goes, I learned that draping a wipe over it instead of a diaper is enough to prevent the fountain from getting you in the eye. My first child was a serious kicker, and he could kick a diaper off, and then the fountain would go. A wipe, he wasn't able to get off before I was putting the new diaper on. ;) My second one, I haven't really had to do that. He's only used the bathroom outside the diaper twice since he was born.

Posted by: Maddmomma | October 24, 2006 at 08:10 PM

Mom 101-

I agree that this:

"Would God or nature design something faulty?"

Is completely faulty reasoning.

Posted by: krista | October 24, 2006 at 08:09 PM

Irt Mom101: I would hope that anyone making an anti-circumcision argument would be consistent and maintain that is also inappropriate to pierce a baby's ears.

Posted by: radmama | October 24, 2006 at 06:39 PM

I don't want to circumcise and Jeff does. Even though my reasons for not wanting it are much better than his for wanting it, If we have a boy, I'm going to pick my battles and let him have this one. I'm sure it won't be the first time we disagree over parenting issues.

Posted by: TB | October 24, 2006 at 03:12 PM

If a little boy comes out of my nether regions come March, we won't be cutting. We talked to our midwife about it (after we'd basically made up our minds), and we talked to my dad, a pediatrician, about it. It's becoming a less common practice. Our one concern was that uncircumcised men are more prone to penile cancer; our midwife explained that while this is true, good hygine seems to be a preventative measure of this occuring, and we don't forsee ourselves not taking good care of cleanliness (and teaching good cleanliness). And besides, Daddy was born at home and wasn't snipped, so why should Baby be?

(Very Mom (now Kerplop) sent me some great articles, upon my request, re: this very topic, if you're interested.)

Posted by: Audrey | October 24, 2006 at 02:42 PM

Wow, 80 comments on a circumcision post...and not a single guy commentor! Well, I'm glad to be the first one to comment. Unfortunately, I have nothing to add to the debate. However, I will say that I'm perfectly happy with my circumcised johnson. But then again, I am Jewish on the inside.

Posted by: MetroDad | October 24, 2006 at 02:03 PM

And Krista, thanks for the VeryMom link. Interesting. Although I gotta say, I automatically discount an essay that includes the argument, "Would God or nature design something faulty?"

Uh...yes?

Posted by: Mom101 | October 24, 2006 at 10:57 AM

Ooh, I take off for the weekend and miss a good one!

I can play the Jewish card here, although my decidedly non-Jewish partner says he'd go the same way so there's one argument we don't have to have.

I suppose, Marina, you could also ask why people put holes in their baby girls' ears for purely decorative purposes. There's really no good reason for that one, is there?

Posted by: Mom101 | October 24, 2006 at 10:54 AM

Sorry, I just looked at the pictures since I have never seen one that wasn't snipped, and I gotta tell ya, it's gross. My son's had no problems when their's was done and I do know men that have problems with "smell" from not being circumsized. But maybe they just don't shower enough? But I vote for snipping cause if I seen one that wasn't, it would gross me out.

Posted by: Robina | October 24, 2006 at 10:52 AM

Like Mrs. Fortune and others, I am Jewish and being circumsized is part of our religion. 6000 years of remembering Abraham's covenant with our G-d. I would have never not. I also think that other than that, it's a personal decision - I also think that as his dad - your hubz might have a clearcut (HA) view of the situation.

Posted by: Kvetch | October 24, 2006 at 10:43 AM

Why on earth would you cut off a part of your child's body? Seriously, I don't get it. I have two sons and it never occurred to me to circumcise. Their dad isn't cut either, but he is six feet tall and hairy, whereas my tallest son is no more than four feet tall, and both boys are pretty hairless (apart from their heads) they don't seem to mind looking different. I try not to judge people who made different decisions to mine, I don't know what factors they had to take into account. But if you have a choice, why do it? The study about AIDS and circumcision turned out to be VERY flawed which is why no addemic paper was willing to publish it. The first time I saw a "cut" penis, I freaked I didn't know what to do with it! It all depends on what you are used to. My kids have seen both sorts and I don't recall it ever coming up in conversation (they are 6 and 8) they just seem to think it's one of the many differences between people they know.
Yes, they do pee at you when you're changing them, it's not so bad and you soon learn to throw something over them, while you change the diaper. The rush of cool air seems to set them off. I saw a "pee-pee cover" somewhere on the net but can't remember where. Maybe you can find it, I thought it was very funny - America a gadget for everything.
Good luck with your baby, have fun with him.

Posted by: Marina Shepherd | October 24, 2006 at 02:36 AM

I kind of think it depends where you will live - although you won't control where he will live after he's grown.

I personally think the farther west you go, the fewer circumcisions are being done "just because." So it really would be normal for him not to be cut; it might be the minority of boys (except for religious reasons) who are.

I get the sense cultural things like this change slower in the east and south, where tradition is more important than new information.

By the time he's grown, he can stand up for himself. So to speak.

Posted by: Krisco | October 24, 2006 at 02:13 AM

I got to abdicate that decision because my husband is Jewish. My son's circumcision was a little "different"...I think the doctor got kind of distracted and there was a little bit leftover. But when I was told that he would have to go under general to get it fixed, I though, "Hey, it'll be a conversation piece." You know, that awkward moment in bed when you don't know what to say next?

Posted by: Di | October 24, 2006 at 12:00 AM

Hey, earlier I commented:

"Very Mom" wrote a very well researched and very opinionated post on this awhile ago and I looked for the link to share, but she has changed domains and the archives aren't around for the time being.

Anyway, it was all for the uncut.

So, I eamiled her about the link. Her archives are still up, I just didn't know how to find them so anyway, it is here: http://verymom.com/weblog/index.php/site/comments/why_i_am_weird_part_two/

Posted by: krista | October 23, 2006 at 11:47 PM

I'm sitting in the den with my husband right now- We find out on Wednesday whether we're having a boy or a girl. I just said, "If it's a boy, are we having him circumsised?" He said, "Are you kidding? Hell, yes!"

Father knows best. ;)

Posted by: Suburban Turmoil | October 23, 2006 at 11:35 PM

Like many others we did not cut either of our sons. There was no clear medical reason and no religious reason. The decision was cemented after all the stuff #1 went through so soon after birth. I just could not bear the thought of cutting him after he had already had a major surgery. His little body has enough scars as it is.

Posted by: Awesome Mom | October 23, 2006 at 11:14 PM

We have 2 boys. Both are circ'd. Not having my own penis, I left the decision to my husband. It's possible that I would have refused it, had I researched more prior to son #1's birth. But then his was done, and I can't imagine explaining if #2's wasn't.

After hearing a few horror stories of boys having to have it done at older ages, I'm just happy it's over. It's a decision I rarely even think about now.

Posted by: Refinnej | October 23, 2006 at 11:01 PM

I had a male friend who had had a botched circ and he was so terribly psychologically damaged by it. He was in utter agony about sex and dating. So I would vote no.

Posted by: Sue | October 23, 2006 at 10:33 PM

We had my son cut. I didn't want to have it done because it seemed unnecessary. But, my husband is cut so he wanted my son to be too. My son was not bothered by the procedure at all, in fact he slept through the whole thing.

He had a lot of problems starting a few months later. The skin at the top where it had been cut kept adhering to the shaft and we kept having to pull it back and put vaseline around the shaft to keep the skin from reattaching. I don't know if that makes sense but it was a pain in the ass to have to do everyday plus it was not comfortable for my son. It got to the point where he would fight it at diaper changes.

He ended up having to have surgery at 3 years old to enlarge the pee-hole (urethra?) opening. My pediatrician told me the small opening could have been from a botched circumcision. While the urologist was in there doing the surgery, he went ahead and redid the circumcision. My son hasn't had any problems since then.

In retrospect, I wouldn't have had him circumcised if I had none all the problems that would come along. My nephew is not circumcised and they have never had any problems with his penis like we did with my son.

Posted by: Michele | October 23, 2006 at 09:56 PM

Damnit, Mrs. Fortune. I was hoping to have a secular penis snipping party.

Complete with sausage and meatballs.

HEH.

Posted by: Kristen | October 23, 2006 at 09:45 PM

Well, we did it ostensibly for religious reasons. But I think we would have, anyway, because we thought it would be best for him to be like his dad, you know, so it would be easier for him to understand and stuff.

And as far as them "remembering" the pain, I don't think that's so much the issue as is it painful at the time. Which it definitely is.

But at least you don't have to have a catered affair to do it.

Posted by: mrsfortune | October 23, 2006 at 09:19 PM

I was a little ambivalent about this: intellectually I thought we probably shouldn't do it, but I was worried about the stigma, like you. And then I didn't feel like I had any ground to stand on, whatever decision I made because, honestly, what the hell do I know about what it's like to have a penis? So I left the decision up to my husband and he said "snip it". I don't regret it, but I don't think I'd regret it if we HADN'T done it, either.

So, there. An extremely helpful comment for your pleasure.

Posted by: Amy | October 23, 2006 at 09:08 PM

I have two boys. They have both had the procedure at just a couple days old. If you were to ask them "HOW DID YOU FEEL? DID IT FEEL INHUMANE?" They would look at me like I was a crazy woman. Which I just may be! ;) Interesting little tidbit.....a man did it on my first boy and a woman did the second boy. The man made a HUGE head and the woman made a long shaft! My guess was they were doing it based on their personal preference!

Posted by: Jen | October 23, 2006 at 09:05 PM

Before you decide, I think you should go read this post and comment thread.

http://moof.blogsplot.net/2006/07/28/the-male-circumcision-controversy/

http://moof.blogsplot.net/2006/08/17/ongoing-circumcision/

Posted by: Sarah-Jean | October 23, 2006 at 08:58 PM

I was reading this and trying to think back to when Dawson was born. I really never had problems with the diapering of a boy. I only got peed on twice and he's two years old now.

I am worried that when and if I have a daughter I'll be so nervous of wiping her carefully (I know, front to back...) so she does get any infections.

That always worries me.

Posted by: Dana | October 23, 2006 at 08:52 PM

My husband and I agonised over whether or not to circumside our son. I spent weeks researching the pros and cons. Friends who had sons in the early 90's and did not have their them circumised because it was very out of favour, have (all but 1 ) since had to have it done for various medical reasons. My OBG and GP all queried our desire to have the procedure performed, yet both admited later that their sons have been done. My son has just come out of nappies and has now discovered his new best friend, I am please that a good soak in the bath is enough to keep this area clean and that penile and cervical (in regards to the future partners) cancer are thing that carry a much reduced risk.
Our son was done at 6 weeks, with a local. A plastic bell was put over the important bits so his penis was safe from damage and he did not cry at all. It took 4 minutes and he showed no signs of discomfort in the weeks after. When I read posts like this I do wonder if we did the right thing, but then I think it over I realise that this was right for our family.
I feel that this is a very personal, difficult and controversial choice for a parent to make and we have to respect others beliefs and ultimately do what you think is right.

Posted by: Jenny in Queensland | October 23, 2006 at 08:48 PM

We're Jewish. My son had a bris and he's just fine with it. Since we live in a community that is about 50% Jewish, pretty much all the boys here are circ'ed. When my son had his bris, he didn't even cry. It was so fast and done so well by the mohel we chose that it was a piece of cake. And I was right there watching! It took a few days to heal, and it was easy to care for.

I've only seen one adult with a turtleneck, and for a Jewish girl like me, it was pretty shocking. I didn't find it the least bit attractive. Nor did I sleep with said turtleneck guy.

Me, I'd always say Circ, but that's the religion and the tradition talking. If you are used to a circ'ed penis, then go with what you know best.

Posted by: margalit | October 23, 2006 at 08:33 PM

Our son is circumcised, and believe me, when you do it when they are an infant (couple of days old) they DO NOT remember! It is a breeze to take care of for the first ten days or so. It's no big deal. I don't know why there is such a push these days not to circumcise....seems more about what is the "politically correct" latest way of thinking now a days. I don't get the controversy, really.

Posted by: Pattie | October 23, 2006 at 07:08 PM

Wow - Good question. This would create much debate in out household - but surely we should view it in the same light as we would female gential mutilation? If there is no medical need for it then why do it?

Tough call.

Posted by: Lia | October 23, 2006 at 06:37 PM

We decided to have the procedure done. Father, son match thing. His little weiner healed faster than his belly button. If you decide to clip think about checking with the Dr./hospital about the cost and when they will do the procedure. P.S. Oddly enough my daughter has managed to pee on me more than my son!

Posted by: Nicole Christensen | October 23, 2006 at 06:28 PM

As a sad commentary on my lack-of-other-thing-to-think-about, I was thinking about the discussion here while walking home from the kidlets' activity tonight.

One interesting tidbit that noone has mentioned is that [/broad generalization] uncircumcised men find sex with a condom more pleasurable than circumcised men do [/broad generalization.]
Something to consider while contemplating your son's future pleasure and safety .

Posted by: radmama | October 23, 2006 at 06:20 PM

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October 23, 2006

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